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JolietDelta

Turbine Blower for 540-sized Motors

by JolietDelta Feb 5, 2015
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the hole is too big for a regular 3.16 motor shaft

I am trying to use this for an AC motor for a furnace blower. My motor cannot be reversed and it spins the wrong way so I am wondering if anyone knows of a way to reverse the direction of the fan blades??

definitely going on my gokart

Hi,

first thank you for perfect model. I modified low-rpm impeller, made it bigger - filled space of chamber and I got higher pressure - tested only on Bestway mattress. Now it is able compress enough air into mattress without any additional inflatting. Material is ABS Not Dead from PM + reinforced by acetone, motor brushed 540 from kids electric vehicle.

I'm having some troubles in editing this model in Solid Works and Fusion 360. Can anyone share with me an editable file?

What software ?
and are you willing to share ?
Cheers

Made using PLA and PETG
Worked great on brushless 3000Kv motor on 12v up to 60% throttle then the fan pulled off the shaft and stalled on case.
this stripped the centre hole.
need a way to lock on shaft better,
however on low throttle (min) i was getting great airflow and at 50% i was getting close to 20m/s velocety out of the 25mm outlet..
impresive model.

A little late as the blower was created 2015 - but if you need a better connection beween the motor and the rotor you could use a cardan couping piece like this one found at the Conrad store:
https://www.conrad.at/de/messing-kupplungs-einsatzstueck-modelcraft-bohrungs-o-32-mm-o-x-l-13-mm-x-15-mm-226718.html
...and here is a cheap motor with a matching axle size:
https://www.conrad.at/de/universal-brushed-elektromotor-motraxx-x-drive-540-2-11600-umin-244449.html

Beautiful design!
I was wondering if the sense of rotation of the engine should be counterclockwise right?

I already have a 2830 750KV engine that I use as a mini drill mobile; could I be able to adapt it?

I would like to use your project to create a mobile blower to clean electronic parts at work;

Can you explain the difference between the various impellers?

Thanks again.

Antonino

hay mate. thanks for this un real designe i have printed the high flow 2
With 00.1 mm layer and a 0,2 mm nozzel and 100% infill with no suport.
and it is A BEAST i love it
bout i am having a problem with making it stay on the drive shaft
I am using the samen engiien as you.
Do you think a small screw will help ?=

Hi, do you know about how many PSI this can produce? Was thinking of using it on my go karts 4 stroke engine.

Also, Any idea of outlet dia?

its not enug for that mate :)

i would beg to differ, if you have this on a 3000Kv motor and can keep the turbine on the shaft i think you will get great results.
at 60% throttle on 12v i was getting 14+ L/s and for a small gocart this would help.
you wont get huge compression but it will give a performance boost from the increase in intake air

Starting the print! Looks great!

Do you have non-STL copies of the turbine? I'm trying to edit it to include a slot for a gear, but it totally nukes FreeCAD :(

Hello!
Unfortunatelly this is an abandoned project and I don't have no CAD files available anymore.

wouldnt you achieve better efficiency by having the inner contour of the housing follow the contour of the blades better? the inner side of the housing seems a bit open.

Well, you are right. But I had to find a compromise between good and efficient airflow and hassle free printing.

I am wondering if this model scales well. I have a half-ass idea of adding this electric turbo to a combustion engine, leaning on the results by http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/. I guess efficiency will drop, but hope the larger size will increase the absolute air flow and increase the ability to compress air. Thoughts?
P.S. I am planing to measure the ability to compress air by blowing into a small enclosed space with a manometer attached. I think this simulates blowing into a cylinder with closed valves pretty well. Thoughts?

hvis du bruger mesh mixer og make soild burde du ikke have noget problem :)

Danishdude, i sent you a PM. Iv been thinking about doing EXACTLY this and id love to hear your thoughts and ideas

Hallo! Echt tolles Design!
Besteht vielleicht die Möglichkeit, dass du Step-Files vom Low-RPM online stellst? Ich habe zwar das Loch für die Welle ohne Probleme kleiner machen können, jedoch würde ich gerne die Flügel ein wenig stärker machen?

Nice design! I was wondering if this kind of turbine blower is accumulating enough pressure to lead the air away through lets say a tube/hose?

Thank you.
It depends on the length and the diameter of the tube or hose.
One of my students attached an old hose (~ 1.8 m) of vac cleaner on the outlet of the blower and gets a pretty good airflow and sufficient preassure. He uses it for blowing alumin(i)um chips and dust off of his mill.

Thanks for your reply! I wanted to test using a turbine blower for print-cooling. The plan was to have the blower fixed to the frame and then have a hose (just like a bowden setup) going to the hotend for intense cooling without adding weight to the printhead. I scaled down your brilliant high-flow-impeller and made a new housing for better mounting to my printer frame. Problem now is to find a suiting hose that it's both flexible and that stays "open" no matter where the printhead is...

A hose that is 60cm long and dia: 20mm is no problem at all, good airflow of course a little reduced but still better than any fan I have tried. :)

Thanks! I was thinking about the same application!

I have been getting great results with cPAP tubing for remote-cooling the print head and part on my Kossel. Check out my posted things for some pics if you want.

First of all great design and excellent work I must say! So right now I have scaled up the impeller to about 4 inches along with the impeller housing with the intent to use it as a fume hood extractor fan. Since I print mainly with ABS I was hoping I could take your design and slap on an old standup fan I use in my room. The question I have for you is since this room fan spins quite slow (Much slower than 20 000 RPM) at about 300-400 RPM which impeller would you suggest using for maximum suction? I printed the high flow 93-2 which spins great but the suction is non existent. I have a feeling I have no choice but to use a faster motor. If you can give me any suggestions that would be great. I just need something with high suction for evacuating the toxic ABS smell and particles from my fume hood chamber at the top of my printer. Thanks in advance.

I would recommend using the latest rotor (low-rpm-39...). But I doubt that 400 are enough, even when all is scaled up. Then again, I have no empirical data and am only speculating. :-)

Forgot to mention that the high flow fan on my fume hood right now seems to do its job for clearing the fumes emitted by the printer when printing ABS. It must create enough of a negative pressure to evacuate the smell and harmful particles.

Thanks for the reply, I will be going with the low RPM impeller and I will try out adding an up converter gear to have the impeller shaft spin faster. I've calculated the driving gear required for my setup. I'll throw a steel rod on my lathe print out some gears and use some RC bearings and throw something together that works. I just hope my fan motor has enough torque with a larger gear. If not I have a super torquy table saw motor that I can use that sounds like a jet taking off. Anyways thanks for the comment and amazing design!

Excellent design! A few questions

1) are there any video's of this thing in action?
2) what blade design has the most thrust?
3) would the impeller be better printed in PLA or ABS?
4) thinking about using a couple of these to propel a small one person hovercraft (not an RC model, but a full scale), would a few of these output enough thrust to move it?

I have one video of the one I printed it's not uploaded to anywhere yet. I printed mine out of ABS and it was printed .1 layer height and it works like a champ. I don't have a way of measuring the output but I do know it would probably take for an average human weight around 160 lbs about three of these to inflat the hover craft skirt and then maybe about another four to propel it forward. And that's not even including battery weight honestly dude gasoline engines are still the best option for hover crafts due to the weight to power output

Would you be able to post the video to youtube? I am interested in seeing your setup and how well the blower fan runs. I am printing one off right now that I scaled up. I will be using it for my fume hood I am building for my flashforge creator pro when I print ABS.

Printed the model and not to one up ya but I wanted to see what this thing could handle so I printed the whole thing out on my prusia i3v maker farm printer and installed a 3800kv castle SCT motor 1/10th scale motor with the SCT ESC running a 3cell lips at 11.1 volts dc and am able to achieve 42,000 rpm and it is damn loud lol good damn job designing this oh the impeller I used was the high flow. Printed with glow in the dark ABS 3mm and I didn't glue or nothing to the impeller shaft it was a tight fit around the motor shaft so I just pushed it into the output shaft of the motor

Hallo,
erstmal Kompliment für die tollen Rotoren Modelle!
Dürfte ich einen Rotor für meinen selbst erstellten Handstaubsauger verwenden und dich dann bei meinem Projekt verlinken?
Ich denke der High Flow Rotor wäre dafür am besten?
Freue mich auf deine Antwort

Liebe Grüße
Sami

Mit entsprechendem Hinweis auf den Ursprung - kein Problem.
Ich würde das zuletzt hoch geladene Design des Rotors empfehlen. Es läuft hinreichend leise und hat einen ordentlichen Durchsatz. Viel Erfolg. :-)

Vielen Dank, das ist sehr nett :). Meinst du die Low RPM Turbine? Ich habe einen Motor mit 20.000rpm gekauft, diesen hier: www.ebay.de/itm/282009307064?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. Muss ich die Drehrichtung des Motors umkehren damit die Turbine saugt?

Nur wenn er nicht rechtsdrehend ist. Ansonsten schaufelst Du nur Luft im Kreis herum. :-)

Comments deleted.

Thanks for this great design, and the updates over time. I just printed the turbine, and am about to mount it to the motor for a test run.
Did you glue it to the motor shaft? From the direction of air flow I assume it would get loose otherwise, right?

This depends a little bit on waht filament you use. I've printed my rotors out of some special PLA blend which is less brittle and has a higher glass point. With "standard" PLA I think it's a good idea to roghen the motor shaft and dip it into two-component adhesive before fitting it onto the rotor. It's not the mechanical impact which causes the rotor to get loose, it's the motor shaft heating up and slowly melting the PLA.

Edit: I see you're from switzerland. So I recommend you to get some UHU Plus Schnellfest. It helps a lot.

Firstly, thank you for such an awesome design and contribution!

Are you able to provide a bit of information on how to run the brushless motor off a lipo battery without the ESC?
If an ESC is required, do you know how I can easily get the motor to run at full speed without a radio?

Thank you

Thanks for the compliment. :-) The B/L motor doesn't run off a LiPo w/o an appropriate controller. In my case it's one of those cheap B/L controllers for RC cars (some far-east brand). The controller gets the throttle signal from an ordinary 15€ servo tester. You may also try an arduino for more fancy stuff. Some B/L controllers (esp. the ones w/o any security settings - i.e. the cheap ones) can be programmed to start with full throttle once the DC power is connected. But I'm not so sure if this is such a good idea. :-) BTW: you don't need a B/L motor at all to get a decent airflow. A standard 540 12V DC motor with ~120W is sufficient for some good fun.

You are quite right - I built this with the high flow turbine and a standard 540 Silver Can connected to a 7.4V 2S lipo is crazy powerful (and loud) already. (^_^)

As a "Thank you - pay it forward"
I've created some additional parts for this housing to make a handheld cordless workshop blower. The intake cover stops ingestion of foreign objects and protects fingers.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1398260

Handheld cordless workshop blower (add-on to turbine blower)
by djwhu77
Comments deleted.

Hallo,

ich möchte den Blower sehr gern auch nachbauen, habe allerdings Schwierigkeiten eine passende Steuerung zu finden, beziehungsweise weiss nicht genau, was ich dazu nehmen sollte. Ich wollte gern einen 135W Motor verbauen und ihn dann direkt steuern und nicht per Fernsteuerung, kannst du mir da einen Tipp geben wonach ich suchen muss? Was für eine Steuerung hast du eingebaut?

Vielen Dank im Voraus und viele Grüße,
Timm

Ich habe einen bürstenlosen Motor aus einen RC Auto verwendet. Dieser braucht einen speziellen, drephasigen Regler. Du kannst jedoch auch einen handelsüblichen "500er" Gleichstrommotor verwenden. Dieser kann dann problemlos über seine Spannung gesteuert werden.

Hallo,

ich möchte deinen Entwurf nutzen um eine VenturiDüse zu betreiben. Diese soll Pulver mittels Unterdruck hochsaugen und im Luftstrom kräftig rausblasen (bissel wie Airbrush). Lärm ist dabei unwichtig. Welches Schaufelrad aus deiner reichhaltigen Auswahl macht da den meisten Druck? Btw danke für diese perfekte Vorlage!!

Hi! Ich empfehle das zuletzt hinzugefügte Rad (LowRPM_....). Es hat den mit Abstand besten Wirkungsgrad und läuft zudem angenehm leise.

Hallo welchen Wellen Durchmesser haben die schaufeln ?

Gruß Markus

Ca. 4.5mm - je nach Lust und Laune des Slicers/Druckers. :-)

Schade ,er hat alles so fein gedruckt und kann die Teile nicht testen ,naja als deko machts sich auch ganz gut .

Meine 540er Motoren aus dem Carmodellsport haben leider alle eine 3-3,17 mm Welle

Gruß Markus

Wellen aufrauhen und mit Epoxy/Baumwoll-Kleber einkleben. Hat bei zwei Freunden gut funktioniert und hält sogar besser als 4,5mm Wellen im PLA.

Comments deleted.

wäre es möglich das Bauteil auf einen Wellendurchmesser von 3,17mm umzuzeichnen ?

Das macht wenig Sinn. So kleine Strukturen werden vom Slicer/Drucker meistens nicht ordentlich ausgegeben. Und Zeit hierfür ist leider auch keine da. :-/

Danke für den Tipp leider ist das nicht so wirklich zentrisch geworden

Hello mate great work ! just wondering if you have STP or SLDPRT files by any chance ? I want to modify a bit to fit my brushless motor Thanks

You can open a STL file into solidworks as a solid body you can then modify.

In Solidworks, go to file->open, change the drop down menu to STL (important!) then click "options" and check "import as solid body", then navigate to the STL and select it, then press open.

It won't retain any info besides the polygon structure, and surfaces will look like a whole bunch of triangular shapes, though they are planar anyways. You can always extrude a plug to fill the current holes then cut out new holes where you need them.

Gibt es vielleicht einen Link zu einem Shop der einen passendem Motor hat?
Ich finde irgendwie nur Motoren um die 80 - 100 €

LG

Conrad oder Polin würde ich sagen. Alternativ im Modellbauladen nach ausgebauten Motoren von Aufrüstungen fragen.

Super Teil! :)

Gibts eine Empfehlung für einen passenden Brushless Motor?

Ich benutze einen KV3570 aus einem RC Buggy. Die Teile haben einen abgeflachten Schaft, kosten recht wenig (gibt es oft als Restmaterial, weil er den Buggy-Leuten zu wenig Leistung hat) und haben recht effiziente Kühlrippen.
Eine Kontronik, Plettenberg oder Hacker (500er Größe) ginge auch. Aber die Dinger wären einfach leistungsmäßig zu groß dimensioniert.

Hello please add turbine rotor solidworks file ?

because turbine rotor diameter so big. my motor shaft diameter 2 mm.

Sorry - but no. I won't share SWX or INV source files. Speaking from experience, I highly recommend not to use motors with 2 mm shafts. Either your motor is too weak for this application or the shaft will wear out in short time. The latter means you will be destroying your precious rotor.

Can you design a hand crank for this, so i can use it for my forge

A hand crank? Sure? As long as you're not Speedy Gonzales, this would be a rather useless item. .-)

ohh wait i found a motor laying arround in my workshop. I was thinking if i can use this in my forge like those hand crank blowers like this http://www.centaurforge.com/images/C37HC.jpg , thanks for replying tho

It would be great if the necessary infill structure would be designed in the model already. Finding the right infill seems tedious and never gets perfect.

I prefer to leave that work to the slicer. Some print w/o any infill or with low infill (like I do), some need it already at 80° overhangs... A good slicer can calculate the necessary infill and cover it with interface layers, which gives good results.
But, even more important, no matter what infill destity I had chosen - someone would complain about it (too low, gaps too narrow, overhang too much... you name it. :-)

I understand. Maybe I should have added that I was refering to the printing of the propeller. I have a problem finding a good ratio where the infill supports the first layer where the curving of the cone starts and not too much infill/weight. And how do you get symmetry in your infills? None of the infills appeared to be symmetrical (balanced weight) to my eye. Though I haven't verified that yet.

Ah... Infill, not support material. My bad. :-) Well, the best type is slic3r's "honeycomb" at about 40%. The blades are desinged, that a slicer with a fixed extrusion width of .4 mm can slice them seamlessly with two perimeters. So a complete layer will be printed without any retracts and thus the surface will be smooth and clean. For the first layer/top infill I've selected "circular". With these settings the part will come out well balanced and can be flawlessly operated at higher rp/m.

I have to ask, why is the inside of the housing not matched to the curves of the impeller? Usually on a centrifugal style compressor - ie turbocharger - the inside of the housing is very closely matched to the contours of the impeller. Doing this should result in a big increase in efficiency, no?

I have to ask, why is the inside of the housing not matched to the curves of the impeller? Usually on a centrifugal style compressor - ie turbocharger - the inside of the housing is very closely matched to the contours of the impeller. Doing this should result in a big increase in efficiency, no?

Short Version: yes - but only if the shape of the chamber/housing follows the shape of the Vanes (which usually looks like a funnel). This would be ideal - but nearly impossible to print with FDM machines.

In fact only the upper section and the lower section are important when it comes to efficiency. If you fill up the whole space with (large) vanes, you have an effective area on the aspiration port and one on the lower section of the rotor. The vanes in the middle section would mostly be pushing air around without any (useful) further effect. The aerodynamics on turbochargers are a bit tricky, I admit. To be honest: an ideal housing for a turbocharger would be made out of two separeted C-shaped chambers. With the lowermost chamber having a circumferential orifice which height exactly matches the height of the vane's lower/outer sections. In this case the charger has an aspirating part and a compressing / outputting part. But this particular geometry would be impossible to print with our FDM machines.
So, considering the limitations of FDM the housing is kept simple and so are the rotors. The reasons for the large clearance are: 1) Safety - you won't wittness a PLA rotor getting in contact with your housing at 15k rpm. 2) It has to be simple to print (both, the housing a s well as the rotors). 3) Noise. A rotor with large vanes which are running too close to the housing makes some very annoying sound. 4) Due to the limitation of PLA, the vanes in the aspirational area haven't by far the effectiveness of "real" vanes. You reach the material's limits already with a 530 brushless drive. More aerodynamical magic in the middle part of the rotor is therefore effectless. Same goes for things like raised and extended tips. The just don't get enough air through the aspiration port. :-)

http://www.3sx.com/faq/turboclock/turbo-clocking-3sx-101-10big-600.jpg

Would something like that really be so difficult to print? I would think you could do it with careful use of supports, or maybe make the housing two pieces.

I get what you're saying about the clearances on the blade tips, though, you'd never get super tight tolerances with these printers, but even big tolerances would be better than having the giant open area outside the vanes.

If the design follows all aerodynamical constraints, regarding efficiency, throughput, etc. - yes. It would be nearly impossible to print without soluble support. And most of the hobbyists here do not have an ABS/HiPPS printer (I guess).
in the FDM/PLA world we wouldn't gain anything. The rotor reaches its limits at about 450W. Not because the vanes would break, but the shaft wouldn't be able to transmit the mechanical load anymore. Depending on what type of motor you are using, either the heat of the shaft will kill your rotor or the shaft itself will become loose. In order to get the aerodynamical advantages out of a "professional" designed chamber, it would require a lot more than 450W (it's getting interesting up from 1kW). :-)

Edit: The open area on the vanes is what makes that design (relatively) silent and more efficient. I've designed the rotors with Turbosim (a special SW for calculating Turbines, Compressors ...). If the surface area of the vanes exceeds a certain point, the airflow starts pumping and then aerodynamically stalls. The song goes: Pumping, which leads to reving up the motor, which leads to pumping again (and large drop of rpm), which leads to stalling, which leads to pumping, which leads to reving up...

The whole thing will blow up and spit out nice PLA chips. Cool effect, but not very efficient. :-)

Comments deleted.

Fantastic! i'm printing one out RIGHT NOW loll Thank you for the great design Bravo.

How much noise does it make? As much as a vacuum cleaner or hair dryer?

Well, it depends on the type of Rotor you're intending to use, the amount of power your motor has and what kind of hair dryer you are talking of. My wife's hair dryer, for example, sounds like a jet engine. :-)
In general the "high-flow" type Rotors are a lot quiter than the easy-to-print ones. The "Turbinenrotor..." is a beast. It is designed for less airflow but higher preassure. At 30,000 rpm (on a 650W brushless motor) you can hear it from outside the house.
I recommend to start with one of the high-flow types.

Hallo, ist das Turbinengehäuse mit 0.1mm Layerhöhe ohne Stützmaterial druckbar ? Bei 0.2mm Layerhöhe bekam ich Probleme beim drucken des Turbinengehäuses.

Nein Du benötigst, je nach Drucker, Support ab ca. 60 - 75°. Wichtig ist dass die Option "only touching build surface" bei z. B. Cura aktiviert ist, sonst kommt der Support auch in den Ausströmer. Dieser ist jedoch problemlos ohne druckbar.

Thank you for the updates. I can see the difference in the files before starting. This will be my project for today and will post pictures when finished. I will remove the original photos as they serve no purpose now.
many thanks.

You're welcome. Good luck. :-)

I can only dream about becoming proficient with a 3D design package, the ideas are in my head but using a PC to get them onto a machine is beyond me. I am old school and make everything with non CNC machines.
The measurements of my vanes are 1.5 at the base and 0.6 thick at the top which is the part left so the missing bits must have been less. I will post some pictures for you to see.
Thank you for sharing this.

I am printing this right now and have found I am having a problem. The blade roots are very thin and will not print (0.4 nozzle and 0.1 layer) causing the blades to be separate from the hub. I can post a photo when the print finishes if you like.
Also would it be possible to reduce the length of the feet on the baseplate with stand past the mounting holes as I reckon there are a potential weak spot.
This little fan unit will be just right to help cool my prints.
Thank you

The vanes are a bit challenging, I have to admit. But I could print them with a .4 mm JHead on a Kossel Mini without any problems. But you are right - some tenth of a mm more would make printing the rotor much easier. I try to make the vanes a little bit thicker at the weekend.
The feet, well they were designed to fit one of our mockup-models for our trainees. I'll put a new version online in the next few days. Mehh... nobody likes long feet. :-)