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CanineRocketTechnologies

K-9 Rocket Thrust Vector Control Gimbal V7

by CanineRocketTechnologies May 28, 2019
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Hi! Great work, I'm loving your designs!
Just one or two questions;

  1. What size cardboard tube was this TVC designed for?
  2. Whats the best Motor to use? I understand that mass of the rocket will be different for everybody, but i was wondering what the minimum engine you could theorrtically fly it on might be?

Thanks, and keep up the good work :)

Hi and thanks for you comment! First off the Gimbal is designed to fit into a 3 inch mailing tube. What I'm learning though from all the brands I have tried is that they all differ slightly. So this one is 75 mm which is a few mm smaller than most inner diameters of 3 inch tube, so it can work easily with most brands.

This TVC gimbal can take most any 24 to 29 mm motor. And yes like you have mentioned, It does really depend on the final mass of the rocket. The smallest motor that is 24 mm in diameter is a C-11 motor. So yes, as in the mount itself a C-11 would be the smallest motor that it can fit, though it would need a modified adapter because the length of the adapter is too small. Ok now for minimum motor to fly? That would be a different story. It is really hard to fly a rocket with a full TVC system on such small motors. In my estimate, a rocket using any motor smaller than a E-12 would be very tricky. Because you'll reach a point where a full TVC system would get too heavy in weight compared to the thrust of the motor. I think with sufficient mass savings, It may be possible to fly such a small system, but I don't think this gimbal is light enough. Anyway hope this helps! And if you have more questions, just leave more comments and I'll try to awnser them. Thanks!

Hi, I am so sorry for not replying sooner!

Ahh great, thank you. I will look for a 75mm Mailing tube :)

Yes, that makes sense. I was looking at using something fairly long burning/relativly low thrust, like an Aerotech E6-RCT (24mm) or something with a little longer burn time/higher thrust (assuming i can buy anything like that from my club in UK.. We seem to have strange rules over here...).

I am researching the parts i need for this project, but the last piece is the flight software. Are you ever going to make yours available for purchase or otherwise? (quite understandable if not, with law and everything). I also thought about, if necassary, coding my own. But i have no idea how to code arduino and youtube kinda lost me. (I spent 2 years studying GCSE Computer Science and ended up winging the coding part! So my track record is me wanting to learn but it never really catching on, although i am willing to try again.) Is there any specific tutorials you found useful when developing this system?

Thank you again so much for your help, it is much appreciated.

That is super cool! I may be wrong but I think the UK may have some more restrictions that here. And yes anything I do as of now will always be free

Yeah, I will have to check for restrictions with my club. Thats awesome, thanks for all your help man :)

Can you share the Fusion 360 design files (File>Export>Export to F3D file)? I am trying to create a version for 24mm engines and this looks like a good starting point. That would be a GREAT help. Thanks in advance!

@PicoPlametDev I have updated this page and added the 29 to 24mm adapter! Hope it'll help!

Perfect! Thanks so much! I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks! Just a heads up, the adapter is slightly undersized, so use some tape to get the tension you want

@PicoPlanetDev Hi and thanks! I'm sorry but I can't give you the raw fusion files (which I have gotten requests before) because this was modeled in Tinkercad beleive it or not. I made this when I wasn't too good at CAD to be honest. Tinkercad only exports in STL or OBJ, but I canlink the build area in tinkercad so you can do whatever you want with the raw tinkcercad files. I can't export it though, because it only owkrs in Tinkercad. Anyway I do have a solution, I have a 29 to 24 mm adapter for this TVC system. I'll add the files on here or seperatley (or both) soon!

Yo, Solaris here

after the EPIC FAIL of our first VaDiM unit (Variable Direction Mount) I've come to check out your design so I can see what's to learn from it (I've refused looking onto other TVC designs before I made my own for the reason of what I'll call "engineering spoilers", where it's better to understand WHY something is the way it is, what are the alternatives and how you reach that conclusion than just, "oh, so that does that ... make sense" )
VaDiM v1 kinda sorta works, but we have the following mistakes :

  1. I assumed we needed bearings : NOPE< only makes things more complicated ... screws and bushings do the trick just fine, especially at that scale
  2. I underestimated just how puny and tiny everything is going to be ... you know when you just edit on and on in CAD software to get your part just perfect to fractions of a milimeter ? only for the printer to spit out a ... well an AbOMiNaTion that's grossly out of tolerance ?
    yeah, I did that, now servos are impossible to mount

in my defense, I am very very determined to have the final design be able to be printed without supports #PrusaMasterRace , so this added constraint i've added to my design just cause, has ... well has made the whole approach very unconventional, and part of the reason it still has so many problems

I do have some questions, however

  1. Is there a good reason why the tube motor mount is skewed, with respect to the coordinate system and outer "joint" extrusions ?

  2. welp, idk it's probably a problem in the stl conversion but none of the holes line up lol (by don't line up I mean they don't exactly overlap perfectly on my screen, this is, of course, yet another exercise in futility on my part, as IRL iw would be less than unnoticeable)

Hi! Yes the holes don't match up in the stl conversion for some reason, but my physical models are fine. I'm actually doing a complete redesign and will update this page soon, because this version works, but it can be much smoother. Oh ya and don't worry, I spent a few months and a ton of prints to perfect this, really a gimbal is easy to design, but a tiny one that works is harder. There are plenty of open source designs out there, but to be honest, It gives me this satisfying feeling that it's my own if I designed it myself

Amazing! Just wondering what type of motor works for this? Is it able to support 29mm motors?

Hi @Titus_P ! Yes this is designed for 29mm motors. A adapter for 29 to 24 mm is actually being tested for the lower classed motors are more easily ready.

Super excited to mod this to fit my rocket frame. Can you tell me the exact servos you used as well as the length on the M3.5 screws? Thanks!

Hi @idown ! Yes I have used many servos for this particular gimbal. Many of them are not precise enough for uses in rocket control. The best I've tested so far are these:
https://www.amazon.com/MakerDoIt-Micro-Arduino-Walking-Control/dp/B07C5PGD3Q/ref=sr_1_24?crid=2L691RY2FLJVX&keywords=9+gram+servos&qid=1563546845&s=gateway&sprefix=9+gram+%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-24

It's good to pay a bit extra for good quality servos. I have heard these are good too, but Have not received them yet for testing

https://www.amazon.com/OSOYOO-Micro-Helicopter-Airplane-controls/dp/B00ZEDRR3Q/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=osoyoo+servo&qid=1563546947&s=gateway&sr=8-1

As for screws, this can work with M 3.5 mm screws although I have not tested this system with theses screws yet. I normally use 1/2 inch long screws and 1/4 inch for the inner. So that's 12.7 mm and 6.35 mm long screws. So I guess 2 m3.5x6 and 2 m3.5x 12 should be sufficient

Thank you for the speedy response and all the information. I will let you the progress- really appreciate your design.

I will print one, very nicely made video too, hey may I ask which arduino components you have used and wheter you have code available for it?

Hi and thanks for asking! The BARK V2 Flight computer is still in development and testing phase. Al files will be open sourced in the future. Expect a bit till it is released. It is basically a arduino nano and mpu 6050 board. A very simple setup. The special thing about the BARK V2 is it's advanced battery system. For codes, it just runs a normal camera gimbal code for demo purposes. For flight it'll use a modified version of theses codes by a really awesome guy named Boris: https://github.com/bdureau/RocketMotorPIDGimbal

Righty, I realized it is porbably easier for me to buy an mpu 6050 so I did that, should arrive some day this week, will build the system after that. Also i made you a little pixelart logo just because I felt like it. Thanks.

Ok great! If you need help, always feel free to ask. Also thanks! I love it!

Have printed outer already and printing inner as if right now, lastly tube engine tube probably this weekend.

Ok sounds great! If you need any help, feel free to ask. I'm not sure if you saw the update, But the inner gimbal has been updated. someone tested the gimbal and a section of the inner broke, so I reinforced it. I also includes 2 pdfs for drill and cut guides to make it easier

The video looks absolutely professional. I might print the TVC when I fix my printer. Congratulations for your achievments and hard work!!!

Thanks! I'm really glad you like it! Thanks to you, I learned a lot about TVC and things that helped me on this project. Thanks again for all your help!

So great to hear this! I wish the best for K-9. By the way, the color scheme looks wonderful and futuristic.

Thanks! My older gimbal got that paint scheme, this one will too soon in a later update. Yes I love blue and black