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Ajlockhart

Duet 2 Maestro Enclosure (Extra Vents)

by Ajlockhart Mar 20, 2019
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Also, have you ever felt how strong a 40mm fan blows. Unless you get a really expensive one, their CFM levels are really low and they don't flow a lot of air volume. You can barely feel the air move on those small fans. I thought it would be best to add vents due to the low air volume they push/pull. If you had a big blower fan like the 5015 fans ducting across your board then the air volume would be fine with the original vents, but, with tiny 40mm fans those things don't blow enough air volume to do very much for cooling.

Yeah, I hear ya, I use a 5015 for my Petsfang parts cooler on my CR-10S. I use a Noctua 40mm for my E3D Gold hotend. Quiet but better than the 30mm original.

Together the dual 40mm should cool fine. The Maestro board was designed to be air cooled, only needing active cooling if you're powering the bed directly trough the Maestro and it pulls more than 14 amps (per @DC42 the designer ...).

Of course it also depends on if you're running two extruders AND NEMA 23's running really fast (not an unusual setup for someone running a Duet ...). Still, the dual 40mm's should do fine for like 90% of the builds.

Here's my Remix I did today after talking to you:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3520236

Duet Maestro (& Others) Enclosure with Fans (Rework)

Thanks for the advice guys. I will look into uploading into mesh workspace rather than working with the part file on Fusion 360. I studied mechanical engineering, so, I'm quite familiar with CAD software and happen to have years of experience with CAD, just not any of the free CAD programs available. I used Pro-Engineer/Wildfire/Creo in college so I am less familiar with Softworks based CAD sofware. I do prefer the new DesignSpark Mechanical software for 3D printing, but, Fusion 360 definitely has more support out there and is closer to AutoCAD, which I've used. I can get my way around on any of the programs, but, it's easier to do some functions in one software vs another. I have found that creating parts from scratch is often easier than modifying existing part files but hopefully PuterPro's advice will help me better edit STL files. Although, the pull tool in DSM is a really cool tool. You can just select a face or hole and change it on the fly. That is a really nice feature for 3D printing especially for quick design changes.

I have some experience with SBCs (single board computers) and not so much with 3D printer controller boards, so, I didn't know how hot they get. I know my AlphaPanda gets pretty hot when I mounted it similarly, with an intake and outtake fans, ducting the air across the board and the board has a fan mounted on top of it, as well. Despite these measures the board still overheated under a decent load, ie when I'm trying to run multiple media streams, my Cryptobot etc. I ended up having to create many more ducts, to get it to cool. So, I thought more would be better in this circumstance. My original design ducted a 5015 fan to blow across my SBC then a 40mm outlet fan. I also created an air channel using lexan, because, I don't have a printer built yet, and it still couldn't keep it cool enough. I ended up putting two large circular vents in the bottom of the metal lunch box I use to house the LattePanda Alpha board and now it keeps very cool, all the time. These vents did disrupt my ducting but it still cooled it better vented than not.

I know it's not perfect and I didn't put vents in certain areas to allow for some of the air to still duct over the board. I know a cover fan will be overkill but I'd rather it be cooler than melt anything. Remember there are a lot of hot parts and high current going to and from this board so proper cooling is paramount. I will also be mounting my controller board to a rail, so, some of the bottom vents will be covered by the larger extrusion on which my electronics will mount. Actually, they may even be mounted to the outside of an enclosure, in which case, most of the bottom vents would be covered. I just wanted to make sure it stays cool. I noted that my vents will disrupt the air flow, but, it won't make it non-existent.

I could put the print on a flow bench and check the flow rate with and without vents, if you guys want the stats, but, I don't think that's necessary. The air will generally flow where it's easiest to do so and therefore the bulk of the air will still go across the controller board and will not all go out of the first few vents, as previously stated. There is no obstruction, so, the air will mostly flow as it was originally ducted, but, some will vent out of the holes I created. That was the point after all. I don't know how hot these boards get, but, I was worried about them not having enough air flow. Plus printing with vents uses less plastic so, it's cheaper to print LOL. I will probably change many of the pieces of my printer once I get it assembled and can see what works and what doesn't.

Thanks again for the advice PuterPro. I will be making most of my updates and remixes of builds under Hypercube/Hypercube Fusion since I'll be using a design based on those. I have had to redo several pieces to meet my needs and will upload them as soon as I confirm they will work as designed. I'm mixing about a half dozen designs together to make my printer, so, hopefully they'll all work together. I wanted linear rails vs trying to get some 12 bearings to align properly for smooth operation. BTW, I can't believe people just hold an entire hypercube together with corner brackets, I'm drilling and tapping every corner of my cube then I'll weld it up once I get it all square. That's how a hypercube should be built. That way it's strong enough to be used as a CNC if you got upgraded stepper motors and drivers.

the pull tool in DSM is a really cool tool. You can just select a face or hole and change it on the fly.

Fusion 360 has a similar feature in the Sculpt workspace. Haven't used it yet, I'm still learning Fusion on my own but have done a number of designs and remixes, so I'm getting there. Sounds like you've got a LOT deeper background than me!

My original design ducted a 5015 fan to blow across my SBC then a 40mm outlet fan.

Wow, that was noisy! I suspect you didn't get a great flow from that because of the mismatch between the fans. There's more than CFM to consider, the backpressure in that setup would have been a problem ... (try blowing into a box with a small hole ...) Blowers & ducted fans are different beasts. BIG fan (pun intended) of high quality fans. WELL worth the extra $$. Noctua is da bomb.

I ended up putting two large circular vents in the bottom of the metal lunch box

LOL! The things we do ... been there. I have a CR-10S with it's big black control box, power supply included, very little airflow.

I used a raised foot setup and designed a new bottom plate and stuck a Noctua 120mm on it, removing the cover on the PS as well. Temps dropped to nothing and quiet as heck.

Thanks again for the advice PuterPro.

My pleasure! {Small Bow}

I can't believe people just hold an entire hypercube together with corner brackets

For SURE, LOL! It's amazing to me how many people get into this hobby without basic understanding of engineering. I've been doing this for a few years (and was even a Mod for the CR-10 Reddit group but no time for it now). The level of complete cluelessness sometimes make me just shake my head.

You did WHAT to your printer??!!??

That said, none of us jumped out of the womb knowing this stuff, eh?

Well, gots to go, Wife wants dinner so time to put on my Chef hat. She says she gets to eat at "Cafe Bobbi" (pronounced with French Accent - kafay bob-eh).

Later my new Friend, be well. Take a look at my Remix, eh?

@Ajlockhart - First of all, nice job. Secondly, TinkerCAD does indeed suck, LOL.

About Fusion 360 - As you saw unless you're a design guy with years of experience, working with the Mesh & Patch interfaces is a LOT of work and not really intuitive.

You're much better off if you load the STL into the Mesh workspace (Don't forget to disable 'Capture Design History' 1st), then go to the Model Workspace.

Select the mesh body and go to Modify->Mesh->Mesh to BRep. It will convert it to a "standard" body that you can now edit in the Model Workspace (WAY easier than working with a mesh!!). Don't forget to turn back on Capture Design History so you can make mistakes ... ;-)

Now, about this design ... I get where you were going with this, but your design is not great for a fan (nevermind TWO) setup. This layout (many vents) is better for a fanless setup.

@ktapper designed it to have a flow under the board, which you know, is where the drivers are.

Although I LOVE what he designed, technically, his dual fan setup was:

  1. Overkill unless you're running huge high current stepper motors at high speeds (which some do...)
  2. Didn't route the air properly, was just a brute force method, not much "routing" of the air at all (which you found to be true, hence your mod).

Most setups really don't need much cooling, they designed the Maestro well in that regard, just vents will do for most. One fan is plenty on even a high heat setup if the air is routed properly. Two running slow will cut noise, and Temp controlled fans is the cat's meow.

But this setup of vents everywhere just destroys any routing, just causes lots of turbulence. The air enters and then goes right out the first few rows of vents. :-O

LOL! The second (exhaust) fan has the same problem, but reversed.

In cooling designs it's EITHER route air from a fan(s) in a controlled manner OR lotsa vents. Not both ...

Without doing some real thinking and testing, you could fix this design by simply cutting down on the vents.

At first thought I'd say kill the bottom rows of vents entirely and cut all side vents in half, volume-wise. Then put a small wall on the bottom, not quite touching the board on the far side of the drivers to channel the air under the drivers. (Mirroring the existing wall he has)

The rest of the parts, the cooling will be fine. this would channel the air under the drivers and out the exhaust. He only created a half channel. Still not convinced that 2nd fan is even needed ... IMHO

Still, I love the work and thought you put into it! If you've not got a super hot setup I'd say dump the fans entirely and use the vents you created, I think you'd find they are plenty, but if you want active cooling, you must channel the air.

I'm not around much anymore :-( but I'll watch for replies. Have Fun!!

EDIT: BTW - There IS a lid. It's posted by another person in the comments of @ktapper's design

Thanks, for your advice it worked a ton better using your method for both DSM and Fusion 360. Now, I can create prettier vents much easier. I will upload a modified version later today that will not disrupt the flow as much but still provide extra ventilation. Thanks for advice on making the STL files workable. In DesignSpark Mechanical, I just had to make it a solid and meld all the facets before modifying it. Some programs you need to unlock the object or do the method you mentioned for Fusion 360. I should be able to keep my work to one piece of software now and not having to switch between 3 to get all I need done. Thank goodness.

My pleasure! We're all here to help each other out (well ... MOST of us! LOL!)

BTW - I don't know if you caught that @ktapper posted the STEP file which imports directly into Fusion without problem and is a DRAWING rather than a MESH. It's what I used for my Remix, much easier, although for some odd reason it's like 25.2 times as big ... Threw me when I went to check a measurement!! Did all my work big, then scaled it down for posting.

Just a quick addition (thingiverse gets pissy if you edit multiple times ...) @ktapper posted the step file so direct import into Fusion 360 is possible, no messing around converting mesh files. Woot!

I suddenly got a bit of unexpected time this AM, so I edited the file and will post it with reference to you both (since you inspired me to get off my butt and do it, LOL!) All the Best!