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Gyrotourbillon - Jaeger-LeCoutre model

by mcmaven Mar 13, 2019
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After finally getting your excellent Astronomia remix working, I am taking a look at this as my next project. One issue is that L2-Frame 1 will need a long time to print - Slic3r estimated about 9 hours - due to all the support material. I am looking into whether I can divide it into pieces so that each piece takes less time, and possibly even so that the total is less by reducing the total volume of support. If you have any suggestions for good ways of doing this, I would welcome ideas. I might also try to redesign it do that it connect the same points in space but with more straightforward by less aesthetic connection between them, allowing for easier separation into parts.

Also, one more question. Where on earth do you find the information to follow the original watch designs so closely? Do you have a spy handing you copied blueprints in a dark alley?

It is a long print, and there is probably more support material than part material. I contemplated the same issues, but in the end I decided to bite the bullet, and to print the whole thing with supports. I used to do all I could to avoid using supports (e.g. using Meshmixer to split a part int as many as 6 STLs), but the latest Prusa slicer does a pretty good job of minimizing the funkyness of the print surfaces that touch the support. Now days I just trust in the Force, and let the default settings do their thing.

With that said, you could try using Meshmixer to split it through the center/L3 bearing shafts, then print both parts with supports and the bearing shafts against the print bed. This should cut the amount of support material in half, because the side of the L2 Frame 1 that mounts to the L2 Frame 2 won't need any support in the middle because it's open. I have had good success using Acrylic Cement to glue things together. And the surfaces that you will need to glue will be nice and smooth, because they were against the print bed.

Relative to blueprints, I wish... Over time I've gotten very good at reverse engineering things from images. I scoured the internet for images and videos of the Gyrotourbillon, then spent many hours iterating my part designs to get them to visually match the images that I found. Sometimes I have to redesign a part 5 or 6 times before I feel it is right.

А Вам несложно будет отправить на email ? montagnik_07@mail.ru Возможно это потому, что я из России...

Я могу попробовать.

Comments deleted.

Здравствуйте. Сайт не работает. Где еще можно взять код? Спасибо

Это единственный сайт, который он опубликовал.

Could you point us to the Arduino code on the https://dronebotworkshop.com site? I've been searching the site (and learning a lot from it) but not finding the code you mention. Thanks.

Go to https://dronebotworkshop.com/stepper-motors-with-arduino/#Demo_1_8211_28BYJ-48_Unipolar_Stepper_with_ULN2003 and look for "Demo 1 – 28BYJ-48 Unipolar Stepper with ULN2003". It's way down the page. The files that I posted were downloaded a long time ago.

I'm in the process of making this, and have a question about tuning the impulse pin, horns, and guard pin. I had to trim a little bit off the top of the guard pin to get it to cleanly fit into the indent on the balance wheel shaft (it was ~0.1mm too high in Z), but I don't think that's a problem. I also had to slightly sand/file the tips of the horns and guard pin for free movement, and had to sand down the impulse pin as well to get it to fit cleanly into the horns and not rub against the whole surface.

When I manually move the balance wheel, it cleanly moves the fork when I move it counterclockwise from the top (if the spring is the bottom), but the right horn catches the edge of the impulse pin when the balance wheel moves clockwise (see https://imgur.com/uELr9Io, with me moving it manually). I feel like this is going to cause problems?
I took two more videos, one of me "winding up" the balance wheel and letting go (https://imgur.com/9WhpegZ), another of me applying torque to the escape gear in the way it would be driven (https://imgur.com/J0ONNAW). Does this look about right? I don't want to put it all together from here and find I have to strip it all back down and replace the lever.

Hi cshake,
I saw the same issues that you saw in your first video when I first assembled mine. It can cause problems, and the sanding that you did was the correct solution.

When I was putting mine together I also decided that the early Fork rotation shown in your first video (which ultimately caused the Fork to jam the Balance Wheel) was due to the top of the Balance Wheel Post rubbing against the bottom of the Fork Center Pin. So as you did, I filed both a little to provide more clearance. In the Balance Wheel STL that I posted, I dropped the Balance Wheel Post a couple tenths of mm so others wouldn’t have the same problem, but I never tested that STL and obviously I didn’t drop it enough. I will post another version of the STL with the Balance Wheel Post lowered more. The gap between the Fork Pins and the Balance Wheel Post isn’t that important, it just has to ensure that the Fork Pins can engage with the Balance Wheel Post.

Note that if there is any rubbing of the top of the Balance Wheel Post rubbing against the bottom of the Fork Center Pin, it will add friction and make the escapement less reliable. Also if the escape wheel is installed, and there is torque on it, then it can hide any rubbing, because the torque ‘locks’ the fork in position.

When operating properly, the Balance Wheel Post hits the Fork Pins (or horns) and knocks the Fork out of the ‘locked’ position. When the Fork disengages from the locked position, the Escape Wheel rotates one tick, and the rotation of the end of the Escapement Wheel tooth that was locking the Fork pushes the ‘impulse face’ of the Fork Tine, causing the Fork to snap, and impart an impulse of force to the Balance Wheel. This impulse each time the Fork snaps back and forth keeps the Balance Wheel rotating back and forth.

It looks like your second video was taken before you did any sanding of the Balance Wheel Post. In your video, when the Balance Wheel rotates clockwise, the right side of the Balance Wheel Post should engage with the left Fork Pin to move the Fork. If the Fork is moving and there is a gap between the Balance Wheel Post and the left Fork Pin, then it is due to the top of the Balance Wheel Post rubbing against the bottom of the Fork Center Pin. And when the Balance Wheel rotates counter-clockwise, you should be seeing the left side of the Balance Wheel Post should engage with the right Fork Pin.

I agree with ruzickjc, the third video looks good. After my filing, I found that the escapement would tick reliably as long as I applied constant torque to the Escape Wheel, which was hard to do with my fingers for any sustained amount of time. I couldn't tell if it was stopping because there was something wrong, or my torque application wasn't consistent. I decided that the stepper could probably do a much better job at applying constant torque than my fingers could. So I assembled the whole thing and it worked.

BTW, nice videos. They really show the problems. McMaven

So, apparently editing my reply twice in a short time automatically flags it for moderation, and that process also apparently takes a long time... maybe my earlier reply will eventually show back up? If it never shows up, thanks for the help! It was the Z clearance between the two pins that wasn't enough.

I fixed the escapement rubbing, tweaked some other parts, finished the whole make, and posted it: https://www.thingiverse.com/make:638926

As noted in the make description, the L2 counterweight needed 15g total so I used some copper wire I had around instead of the printed parts (uglier, oh well), and I made the two drive gears a bit thinner so the shoulder on the pegs protruded above the drive gear enough to support the inner bearing races on the next frame without allowing the gear to rub against the outer race or plastic. Everything else worked great with your instructions, though I used some shorter screws in a few places because of what I had on hand, and the spring was press fit snug enough that I didn't need a screw to hold it.

Gyrotourbillon - Jaeger-LeCoutre model
by cshake

It's good that you didn't glue in the balance spring. According to A26, it's the first thing to go. Now it will be much easier to replace if it breaks. Also see the new STLs that I just added. Hopefully they will let you replace your copper wire. :-)

Thanks for the help! All those videos were actually taken one after another with no work done between them, and the last one required me to get it going first by disturbing the balance wheel to make it continue ticking (it would refuse to start sometimes with just torque, and took what I felt like was too much torque to keep running).

I feel a little stupid now, once you noted the Z clearance between the two pins, it made sense. I'd originally thought the early movement was due to the left fork scraping against the surface of the Balance Wheel Post, and the focus of the previous filing/sanding of the forks and pins had been the perimeters (X-Y axis). I just cut about one full printed layer off the top of the Balance Wheel Post with a utility knife (because overkill in this area isn't going to hurt it) and it fixed everything - no more early fork movement and it takes about half the torque to run mechanism now.

I think taking another 0.15 to 0.2mm off the top of the Balance Wheel Post in the model would be appropriate; more gap doesn't seem to hurt anything within reason. Since the interface in the z axis between the two posts is two surfaces that were printed on top of support, it's reasonable to expect some messiness in the surface quality, and treat it as +/- 0.1mm or more in height.

I'll be sure to post the completed build when I'm done, this is a fun project!

That final video looks really good to me. Applying manual torque to the drive gear and getting it to "tick" reliably was always how I tested to make sure I had things calibrated and spaced correctly and it looks like yours is working really well from what I can see. I also had to do some very light sanding on the horns of the fork for things to move freely, but to me it looks like you're in the sweet-spot.

Just wondering if you ever figured out how much it would cost me to have you make this for me!

I'll send you a message.

Would it be possible for you to make me one of these? I don’t have 3d printer. How much am I looking at?

Let me think about it. I did not track my print or assembly time during the project, so I need to spend some time coming up with an estimate. I will get back to you.

Another item to make for my desk in the office that gets people talking.
Very nice.

remember to post a make here after you've made it.

This is awesome and I can't wait to get it together. I'm printing all the parts now and things are going really well (but I'll find out when I start assembly!).

I'm working off the list of STLs in the guide and I don't see an STL file for the "L3 Base Bottom Cover" in the list of available files to download. Probably not a critical piece but is this something you can upload? Thanks!

I just added the file to Thing Files. Sorry about that. McMaven

Thanks!! One more file I can't seem to find the STL for: "L1 Balance Wheel Ring".

I split the L1 Balance Wheel into A and B parts, so didn't have to use supports. Where the L1 Balance Wheel A part is the actual balance wheel, and the B part is just a cosmetic ring to make its hub look symmetric. The clue is that they are both Blue.

I think the 'L1 Balance Wheel Ring' reference in the Notes STL Files table is a redundant reference to the L1 Balance Wheel B file. I will drop the Wheel Ring reference from the table. But let me know if something else is missing. Maybe I was referring to some other part.

I think you're right. The L1 Balance Wheel Ring looks identical to L1 Balance Wheel B so I'm sure it's just another reference to the 'B' part in the table.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Perfect as last time :) Please wait for your fans to print previous one :)


great work!

I'd like to make this Thing. Can you share the parts in a native CAD-Format (e.g. step) because working with .stl files is not really suitable.
If it's not your Intention to share the native data then I have full understanding of it too. It's only a Question. :-)

Very cool design McMaven.
I'm going to give this build a try. I haven't had much luck in the past with Gyrotourbillons. Maybe this one will be successful.
As a personal challenge, I'm attempting to recreate a couple of your parts in CAD.
What software did you use to create the parts?
I'm particularly interested in how you modeled L2_Frame_1. I'm using SolidWorks. I'm close, but not quite there.
I don't necessarily want your data, perhaps just some insight on how you modeled it.

Hi Rehcia,
The L2 Frame was by far the hardest part to design. It took me a couple of nights (I got a day job) to make the initial model, and several restarts to get it right. When I was done, I had created over 100 Revolve, Cut, Extrude, Mirror, Fillet, etc. operations just to form one part.

I started with a revolve of the frame that initially looked like a spherical flower pot with the bottom side open. I then used cuts to form the bearing mount on one end, and the pads that attached to the L2Frame 2 part on the other end. Following examples that I found online for adding engraved text to a sphere (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ9XsEGxjmQ), I created a Surface Offset around the parts that I wanted to cut out, then a plane above the offset surface to draw my cutout pattern on. Applied Split Line to cut the offset surface with the line drawing that I had made on the plane. I then used DeleteFace to delete the parts that I didn't want to cutout on the offset surface. And finally used Cut-Thicken to cut out each hole individually.

It was a very painful process, that took hours, and a lot of patience. The drawing on the plane is projected on to the spherical surface, so it took me while to wrap my head around things like a straight line translated to a curved cut on the sphere, and ( just the right) curved line would translate to a straight line cut on the sphere. The further the line was to the side of the sphere, the more the distortion was.
So I ended up creating drawing planes on four sides, so my drawings didn't go to the edge of the sphere (where the distortion was worse). Another problem was that when I modified the drawing on a plane, most if not all of the Cut-Thickens were made invalid, and had to be fixed.

After getting the initial cuts done, I built up the feet, and used revolved cuts and lofted cuts to remove pieces that I didn't want and to smoothly merge together edges. I also added some material for the drive gear to screw to. Finally I added a bunch of fillets to give it a more finished look. See the attached files. They numbered to show the progression that I describe above.

My biggest suggestion is to plan ahead.
Late in the process I realized that the distance between the feet was not enough because the L1 frame was hitting the L2 frame as it rotated. What I thought was a little change (just a couple of mm), caused virtually every one of the 100+ feature operations to generate an error and have to be individually repaired. I've gone through this process about 5 times now for various reasons, so now I've gotten pretty quick and making the repairs.
Good luck, McMaven

I'm always up for a good evening CAD challenge, which is why I picked the frame.
Thanks for the insight.
I actually did a sketch on surface to get the cut out perimeters, then projected these to a plane for a straight cut. Deleted all the internal faces to create just the outside surface and then did a boss/thicken.
I tackled it pretty much the same way you did. The thing I'm stuck on is the feet. It didn't occur to me to put them in the initial revolve.
I'm going to try that.
As an added challenge, I started this in SolidWorks, I'm going to model it Onshape.

I had some material in the revolve for the feet, but ended up adding and removing a lot of material after the fact.
OnShape too? You are a glutton for punishment...
Let me know which one you prefer.