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MakinBug

Pitan (as in printed Titan :-) Geared Extruder

by MakinBug Dec 24, 2017
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Having trouble finding the spring (I am potentially making 5 so multiples are fine) any suggestions?

Think I have a bunch of good springs for this left over somewhere, along with screws and bolts, just no bearings or drive gears. Send me a PM.

Could I use a drive gear with straight teeth (like the ones that come with mk8 extruders) or do I need one with the indented teeth (like the e3d ones)?

I use cheap MK8 drive gears and they work well enough. I imagine something like these https://goo.gl/bJFeka sold by E3D work with less pressure on the idler bearing due to sharper teeth. Spare 625zz bearings are a lot cheaper though
If I would build another now I would go with the cheap Mk8 again.
And I can squeeze PLA in an E3D Chimera, 0.4 nozzle 220c at a real 75mm/s speed with a 55cm bowden

Nice work. I would love to try it out, but I'm a bit confused at what to print. It looks like there are a lot of parts and there is no list for what parts I need and how to assemble them. Any tips for a Creality CR-10?

There is a list in the description, just under the BOM.
I don't own a CR-10 but in should work wit any Titan adapted support, maybe slightly modified.
Let me know if you find it hard to model and I'll sort one out

Any clue how to put filament in without disassembling extruder?

This is a little bit hard to hit this little hole in this T-shape part

First, check if the filament path is clear and wide enough.
Then try rotating the filament when the tip touches the guide.
The filament comes curved off the spool and it may help if you straighten the first 2 inches before inserting.

You need to push the lever away with one hand and feed the filament with the other hand until it goes in the filament guide. You can see it going in if you look past the hob gear. If its not going in then the filament path its restricted.
Let us know if you have any other problems.

Just wanted to say thanks for designing this extruder. It works great. It also doubles as a printer calibration tool. Calibrating my existing printer to print it well enough to assemble without a ton of cleanup improved my print quality a lot.

Is there any way to convert this into an Aero with the Aero heatsink?

Only if redesigned from scratch. It needs the same filament path

Oh... Then what is the limitation for making this an exact copy of the titan?

It's just a matter of cost.
For it to work you need the same: tiny bearings, Titan Extruder Hoob (original is £22!), the motor gear and the heat sink.
What you are left with to print its the case and the idler lever.
Not worth it

Oh, that makes sense. But what about aligning the mounting holes with the original titan?

Mounting holes are aligned as they are Nema 17 sized.
If you think a low weight of the extruder + hotend is that important for you, and building a stronger printer or buying a Aero is to expensive, then going Bowden its a neath option

After 2 days small gear not work, now the hole is bigger and not precise :( Printed with PLA

My gears are printed in PLA and one of them has pushed close to 10kg of plastic so far and is still like new.
If you destroy in 2 days, my bet is you have installed it the wrong way around. It needs to go with the chamfer facing down. That means the "arrow" shaped teeth need to point left when the motor is on the table with the axle pointing up. Check the pictures and the instructions again
Lots of people, including me, have done that mistake.
If you still have problems get back to me and we'll see what else to check.

It was properly installed. Now i printing with another PLA filament, when i check it, i will give a feedback.
The last chance is to use remixed gear: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2525578

Mixed Small Gear for Drakon Extruder
by Chaasz

I've killed a couple of pinion gears. Check and see if your extruder stepper is getting hot while printing - it could be that the shaft is getting warm enough to soften the plastic.

Hi, thats a very nice extruder!
I plan to put it on my tiny lovely ender 3. I am not yet sure how the mounting will work. Btw what is this red laser doing in your video?

Look for a Ender mout made for the E3D Titan and modifi it ta fit the Pitan. Is just a matter of changing the hole placement.
Laser is the led on the IR Z probe when it triggers.

thanks! it seems relativly easy i ll give it a try

Comments deleted.

Hi, one question,
11mm Mk8 Drive Gear 11mm of height and 9 mm diameter?

That one yes.
There is only one type of MK8 but I had to specify after people tried to fit Mk7 or something in it

Comments deleted.

Love this! might print this for my printer!

Whats the backlash like? Also think this would be my solution for a Z belt drive with the gearing acting as a brake

Backlash on a well done 1/3 geared extruder is virtually zero. Also, on my 55cm long bowden I'm running from 4.5 to 3mm retraction according to filament and speed

Brilliant!
I will have to print one and try it!

Good design thanks
I am testing now and Im impressed. Had some problems with mouting - bearing not linear with the mk7 gear had to fix the alignment with washers on the bearing side, but now it's ok.

Hi. This is made for a Mk8 gear. I believe Mk 7 is bigger and will mess the filament path.

Yes of course you are right I ment mk8 gear, I had problems with aligning it with the bearing, I used some washers near the bearing to set it right.
MK7 is to big won't fit there at all, I never used it.

Give us more details please. Should be straightforward : big gear - 1x M5 washer - bearing - MK8 - bearing

And here is ok, the other bearing (the o in the idler) that push filament toward gear was in the wrong position toward the gear, had to use washers and move it a little in one direction and now it's ok

Oh yeah. Made that space bigger to have room for supports and have them easily removed. For me it came out dead center every time

Comments deleted.

Just a quick note. I've been using the Pitan now for about a month, and printed it in solid ABS. It may be the quality of the ABS I have, but the small gear is losing teeth and breaking quite rapidly. I'm now printing it in ColorFabb HT, and will report back is that's successful.

Hi
Make sure you have them the right way around. You would be amazed how easy is to fit it wrong.
One of my Pitans has PLA gears and no sign of wear after over a year and more than 4 kg of filament used in it.

Hey MakinBug. I just thought I'd let you know that I'm toying with the idea of using your Pitan as the basis for a centreline extruder; that is one in which the mounting point for the heatsink, and the filament path are right down the middle of the extruder. The main aim is to make my printer build area & effector symmetrical, and to reduce the real estate that the larger cog encroaches on.

Cool mate. When you done post your make as inspiration to others

Will this work with original Titan hardware? My cover and body is cracked and I'd like to print this and migrate the bearings/gears/etc. if they'll fit.

It would not. Original E3D gear is expensive and so Pitan is made to be fitted with cheap bearings and drive gear

Hi,

Could you share your firmware configuration for Pitan? In my printed version I had to reduce max speed of extruder to 30mm/s because with higher speed it was loosing steps. And I was wondering if it's normal or it's related to my crappy quality print or something other.

Hi. My 55cm bowden needs 3-4mm retraction at 80mm/s.
Using a original Chimera,.0.4mm nozzle can print PLA at speeds of 80mm/s and just 195c, and as fast as 100mm/s at 220c. I like the 195c prints better
First check that you can easily rotate the big gear by hand. With the motor off, you should only feel a slight resistance with each step. If it moves hard, check the M5 nut is not tight. Grease the gears and under the M5 nut. If is still hard to move it, your gears my be to close to each other. You will need to print them with better tolerances.
I've got two extruders, one with a 1.8deg pancake stepper at the other with 0.9 degree. The latter was skipping steps until I've increased the amps to 1.2. It works fine now so try that if you have a 0.9 stepper.
Let me know how it goes
Adi

I have steppers 1.8 with 1A on step sticks. When stepper is off I feel resistance but probably to high. Also I glued M5 to bigger gear because there was too loose on it. I will try to reprint bigger gear. Any tips how to correct print it? extrusion width etc?

The M5 bolt loose in the gear may mean the the gear is printed to big. Can't be sure cose maybe the bolt head is small or maybe just the hole is big. Check your gear diameter against what it should be (I can't remember but check in fusion360 or your slice for the model size).
Print at 150μ or lower and at a first layer height as close to 100% as you can. If is to low your first few layers will be wide. Use a knife to chanfer the bottom side.
You may need to do both gears again.
If you glue the bolt you don't really need the M5 nut. Hearing bone gear are self centered if the small one is tight

Ok, thanks, I make some measurements, and scale gear to 96% and I will print in on a raft, and then do some sanding.

No need for raft. Just do a 90% first layer height and chanfer with a knife
Keep in mind that if you are scaling to small it will be hard to fitt the small gear on the shaft

Hi,

I performed some tests, and probably I reached limit of my hardware configuration. I have ramps 1.4 with tmc2208 stepstics and Wantai 42BYGHW804 1.2A motors. Could you share which HW configuration do you have with pitan?

I've got a Duet WiFi and the original E3D Chimera.
Basically, if you can, with the motor off, rotate the big gear very easily by hand then the problem is not from the extruder.
Otherwise check the instructions again.
Check if there is a clear path for the filament, ie the guide is the right way in, the M5 nut is not tight and most importantly that the small gear is the right way in (I've done that one time).
Other than that I don't know what to tell you

I checked everything without any load so it's not issue of Pitan printed by me. In the future I will switch to 32 bit electronics and then I will let you know. But as I wrote, this issue is caused by my electronic limitation. Btw, thanks for great design I will still use it :)

O I made deep investigation and I found root cause of my problem - Step Motor. On reprap firmware page is EMF Calculator, and from it I get similar values, speed is limited to about 30mm/s. I will change in the future voltage up to 24V and maybe extruder step mottor. I also added recommended motor by E3D for Oryginal titan in my configuration (https://e3d-online.com/compact-but-powerful-motor-2). Maybe you could add some detailed information aobut "limitation" of step motors in geared extruders? I think it could be usefull for next people.

That calculator is not for this. You forgot about the 3:1 reduction. That will increase the torque and makes possible to use the small 22 motor. Besides that the pancake motor has a lower holding torque and it will skip more than the one you are using.
I don't think you need different motor or 24v.
If your pitan is well build the problem is elsewhere. Have you checked you are extruding nice, round and straight? If not your nozzle can be partially blocked. Have you checked the thermistor is telling the right temp? 10deg less from real and you will get the exact problem. To check fit a different thermistor or even better a temp probe.
Check this for more details https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/4yytoz/what_feed_rates_do_you_use_on_your_e3dv6/
Mes me on Facebook.Com/MakinBug or makinbug@gmail.com

Nice job, got mine working, thanks.

I didn't have the MK8 drive gear like the one you suggested, so used an older style one. Works fine, using 0.3mm nozzle which occasionally had problems before.

Saw a comment - and seem to me missing something - what screw should I be filing ?

thanks again, Kev

PS No pics of mine because I'm embarassed by the print quality -was trying to use up some 5 year old unbranded PLA. Will reprint and post

It's the M5 bolt. You need to file a bit for the MK8 grub screw to hold otherwise it will move. See the pictures

Aha, your words make sense, and I'll do that shortly. My old style gear thing has two grub screws, between them they're holding. I cant see what pictures you mean though...

The picture with it disassembled. You can see the M5 bolt thread
You should get an MK8 really. They are cheap and plenty on eBay. Other drive gears will not align properly and cause you issues during fast and often retractions

The M4x15 is probably the whole length - including the head. I think the threaded part is about 10-11mm. Can you please configm, as 15mm thread won't fit inside the body when the idle lever is mounted..

Comments deleted.

I'll check but I think is the full length. A button head works also

For a hex socket screw, the size would be M4x10 then - as the head is approx 4 mm high.

I've made it clearer in the description.
Tnx for spotting that.

Can someone link an eBay/AliExpress store for the right kind of spring?
I can't fint one with 6mm outer diameter only 7.5

Diameter, not length! He's right, I can't find any spring too.. is there any banggood / aliexpress link? or ebay?

It suppose to be a link in my answer. Sorry
I've used item no 222454542337 on ebay UK

Ohhh, sorry!! I didn't see the link... excuse me!

No is my fault. For some reason, It was no link :-)

I wonder if a bowden metal coupling (with M10x1.0) thread could be used instead of the plastic coupling ?
If the hole was change to 9mm, it would just be a question of tapping it with a M10x1.0 tap - and then it should be possible to mount the metal coupling...

It can be done. There is room for it and you can even model the thread

I think I managed to do something in the Fusion360 file regarding M10x1.0 thread.. How do you print/orient the lid, so that there is room to add the logo? Using bridging - or dual extrusion ;-) ?

Only with dual extrusion. If you print it another way, supports/ bridges will make it difficult to clean and fit the innards.
Another way is to ignore the "Cover_Logo_2" and just print "Cover_Logo_1" as it is. Then the logo is quite visible even if it has the same color.

Comments deleted.

Also it been nice to add the exact list of parts needed for a complete unit as there a lot of files so kinda hard to tell what you need and what you dont. Awesome work man!

Added a list to the description.

slick thanks!

Nice design. Have you considered adding a PDF or similar with detailed step-by-step assembly instructions ?

I've hoped the instructions are clear enough. I don't have the time for a stand-alone manual, unfortunately.
If you need help with anything please let me know

Wow! So fast... I'm very embarrassed with my incompetence. Thank you one more time to spend your time with me! Soon I'll post another 'made' with the new part (other cheap printer).
BTW: I'll try your fusion 360 tip

Hi, MakinBug! Could accept a request? I made your fine extruder (already post it in made section). It works great! The printer where I mount it is Prusa like and I wanted to put it in way the extruder position is next to X axis. With your base the extruder stays away, in the other side. So a made a dirty adaptation. Works but will be nicer with proper base. I found this thing: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1562887 I tried to do it myself in OpenScad, but I'm a beginner and you know the drill... I finished with garbage. I'm not ready to do it yet. If you like the idea and agree with add one more useful part to Pitan... Anyway, you have my thank you, making it or not!!

E3d Titan Direct drive mount for Prusa I3
by oet

Done. Let me know how it works

P.S. don't bother with Openscad. Try Fusion 360. Is free and you can learn the basics in a weekend

Should be called the PriTan for printed titan :P sounds cooler :D Great extruder btw!

Now that you said it... :-)
And tnx

This is great, will test is out. Do you think a Titan Aero upgrade kit will fit to the Pitan?
(like this from the bay https://goo.gl/L6apmM)

I think it would not work no. The Pitan filament path is different from the Titan.

Thanks for this, it looks nice and I am putting one together. One question: The hex recess in the large gear seems too large. I think it is supposed to fit very snuggly to prevent backlash but it is sized 8.2 mm for an 8 mm hex. Or am I missing something?

There is .1mm space where two parts touch. The minimum you can get away with on a FDM printer
As you can see in the comments, that is often not enough.
Step and Fusion files are included if needed

Hi! Cool extruder! I've found the 695 bearings online, but where did you buy the little idler spring? Thanks!

That was my bad. The spring you need is actually 6mm OD, 12-15mm length and 1mm wire thickness
Got it off eBay.
I've also added the Fusion files. I would have done earlier but I was ashamed of the state there are in :-(

Hi MakinBug!! Wonderful job!! I really like Tiitan and your adaptation is great! I just printed one but I'm getting a little problem... I'm trying to use it direct drive so I mount the E3D v6 direct in Pitan. if I mount it without the E3D v6, everything is fine, but when put the E3D v6 in place the corner when it stay simply doen't fit all right. Looks like the space is a little small for it's circunference. Do you experienced something like this? If yes can you tell how better way to fix it? Thank you!! Continue with your great work!

The hot end needs to be tight otherwise it will move during printing.
There is just 0.1mm tolerance on each side (12.2mm hole for a 12mm E3D V6) and the V6 fits well with a bit of pressure. https://imgur.com/a/IJm6P
You need to make sure your printed parts have the correct dimensions. https://imgur.com/a/W0kb0
First check if you over extrude, if not, increase the size of the part in your slicer, on x and y axes.
Failing that, take the step file and make the hole bigger.
Or, seeing you have already printed it, get a knife and/or a soldering iron and make some room for the V6. At the end make sure the hot end is straight and it doesn't move.
Let us know if you have any other problems

After some cutting and sanding I have it ok. Thank you! After in place I'll publish some photos.

Thank you for the answer. I just measure my print and the dimensions are ok. I saw there's a very light warping in the corner but it is above the screw hole and looks like doesn't matter. Soon I can I'll try to sand or cut slightly to get it done. If I have any other problems I'll let you know.

We'll wait and see if others have the same problem and increase the tolerances if requested.

Started assembly. Printed well so far.
How did do file that screw? Which tools did you use?

"Made" is coming when ready.

I've used the edge of a flat metal file. No need to go too deep, 0.5mm or so, just to stop the gear from rotating under load
You can also do it with a hacksaw. Mark where the drive gear screw will go and do 4-5 cuts one next to the other.

Nice design. Thanks. Will keep in mind for next project.