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Failing Bed Adhesion

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I know that this is a common problem on this form, but this is a special case.

Background Information: My printer is only about 2 months old and only has 70 hours on it. I use hairspray for bed adhesion. I use matter-control as my interface and I use the default settings. 95% of my prints are using "Medium" quality and they turn out great.

Problem: My problem is that no matter how much I adjust the settings or how much hairspray and glue I use, whenever my printer is set to "High" quality, around 12-15 minutes into the print some part of the print starts to come off of the bed. The weird part of this is that it doesn't matter if it is a big print or a small print, they will both fail.

Anyone have any ideas for this? Thank you all for your time.

(Sorry if this gets posted twice, it kept failing to post the topic)

What material are you using? ABS sucks on the ROBO . I also use aquanet hairspray with PETG and its honestly hard to get the print off after, Recently iv been using that new PLA plus and i dont even use anything for adhesion cause the parts adhere so well i feel like its welded to the glass. I cant even pull or pry them off .I literally need to beat them off with a mallet. Honestly though dont use ABS .ITs a waste , the robo is not enclosed. Also get yourself a copy of Simplify3D . Nobody uses anything but S3D now. Also make sure to use mesh leveling .Much better then the original autolevel. Your prints will be much flatter

I used to love PETG untill when i was letting a part cool it ripped a huge chunk out of my glass print bed. Since then i've used ABS Plumbers Glue in a thin layer across my print bed for adhesion and its been wonderful.

Use CURA 15.04.6
Its simplest. It will help you learn how your printer behaves.
You need to get the basics set correctly and then trouble shoot one thing at the time.

stop using hairspray...it sucks and it can degrease your bearing and get into your fans and stuff...just use what everyone else used, glue stick...youre garden variety, run-of-the-mill Walmart washable works well...your prints will stick too well...

Hairspray always worked perfect for me. Been using it for at least 5 years and not had a single printer or adhesion problem .Not all hairspray equal though. I use the good old aquanet

I appreciate the input but I have been using stuff (whether it is paper or other materials) to cover the extruder and other components when spraying hairspray.

ok...what do I know? I've only been using the robo since it first came out...but go with your instincts...

Same here but i have never had a problem using hairspray. Anything else i tried has never compared

Hairspray never worked for me. Glue stick was ok, but messy. I started to use ABS Plumbers glue. It has made my life so much easier in clean up and in holding my prints to my bed. I make my own now so i can make special colors.

You should drop Matter Control. It sucks compared to other free slicers; I would recommend Slic3r. Also, what temp are you setting the bed to?

I do want to change up slicers but I keep using it since its what was given from the start. I am contemplating getting simplify eventually but that's down the road. As for the bed temperature, the default is 50 degrees Celsius

Use 60C, drop to 55C after first layer. :)

Use PVA glue. Thin it out and apply to bed like ABS slurry.

My first thought is the first layer. When changing from Medium to High quality, no doubt that changes the first layer thickness and makes it thinner. And we know that the thicker the first layer, the better it sticks to the bed. I'm not very familiar with Matter-Control, but surely there must be a way to change the first layer thickness independently and make it thicker than the rest of the print (probably make it same thickness as what it would be for Medium prints).

I did find a setting to adjust the first layer thickness. I am guessing that it is default at 100% for all settings but I adjusted it to 125% last night and I still had failure on 3/4 parts.

I suppose I could increase the percentage more but as I said it seems alright until a few minutes in so I feel something is causing it to become detached from the bed. But thank you for the reply, hopefully we can figure this out

I don't think 125% is anywhere near enough. If Medium resolution is 0.2mm and High resolution is 0.1mm (which are common numbers for Medium and High), then setting first layer to 125% will only increase first layer thickness to 0.13mm (rounded from 0.125mm). I would definitely set first layer height to 200% to match first layer height for medium resolution prints. So that would make first layer height 0.2mm, which would stick to the bed far better than 0.13mm height. It's also not surprising that it would fail several minutes into the print, as by this time the part begins to warp, and it's trying to pry itself off the bed.
Please note that these percentages assume Medium is 0.2mm and High is 0.1mm. Adjust your percentage according to your actual numbers. But I would always ensure that the first layer height is ~0.2mm. Of course that number can vary depending on your printbed surface. I use PEI and/or acrylic and filament sticks to them amazingly well, even if I have 0.1mm first layer thickness.

Well I have found a solution to my problem thanks to you. I increased the percentage up to 200% but that still didn't do it. What fixed it was I increased my first layer height to .3 and kept the first layer at 200% and it finally stayed the entire print. I am going to check on quality now but it is still an accomplishment.

Thank you very much!!!

Glad you're making progress! I also wanted to add one more thing. Make absolutely certain you're using isopropyl alcohol on a regular basis to clean your bed from fingerprints. Finger oils are enemy to the first layer, and isopropyl alcohol makes a heck of a difference.

Well first off let me say that you were spot on with your guesses. Going off of what you said does make a lot of sense and I am going to switch it over to 200% now. But my bed is a heated glass bed with no tape or anything else, but I have had no problems with it. But thank you for your help and hopefully this does it.

I did find a setting to adjust the first layer thickness. I am guessing that it is default at 100% for all settings but I adjusted it to 125% last night and I still had failure on 3/4 parts.

I suppose I could increase the percentage more but as I said it seems alright until a few minutes in so I feel something is causing it to become detached from the bed. But thank you for the reply, hopefully we can figure this out

LOL people still advice to mess with 1st layer increase ?
If you get 1st 2-3 layers look perfect, the rest of the print will be perfect as each layer is same.
For me, i dont even bother checking 2-3 layers, i always get 1st layer right and then i dont care because the rest is the same.

Contact me via gmail.com
tonycstech@
Print small box like 20x20mm and send me close up picture. Ill tell you whats wrong with the printer.
If you can, also print cylinder (its faster that way) like 10x10 as high as you want, so i can see if you have issues with z axis or any wobbles etc.
Print PLA using cura whit following settings and then email me with the results.
Here is too many ppl giving too many stupid suggestions conflicting one another so ill help u quicker.

Print cold bed on 3M #2090 blue painters tape.
Apply enough piece of tape in the area where you going to print your object.
Run over the tame with your finger getting it stuck to the bed better.
Wipe the tape alcohol using either rag or cotton ball.
Wipe oils from top of the tape with any alcohol (rubbing alcohol) wipe couple of times and let dry for few seconds.

Print using CURA 05.04.6

Basic settings tab
PLA 1.75mm diameter
Print speed 50
layer height 0.3
Shell thickness (2 times the nozzle size, i assume you have 0.4nozzle so 0.8 is double of that.)
Bottom/top thickness 0.9 (= to 3 layers because layer thickness is 0.3)
Fill 20%
Speed 50
Temp 230 (depending on your nozzle could be lower or higher. If layers separate, get it hotter by 10)
bed temp 0
(make sure to set nozzle diameter correctly)

Advanced settings tab
Retraction speed 20
Distance 2
Initial layer 0.3 (same as the rest)
Travel (50) i want it slow for now. If you travel too quick, you might skip a tooth on the belt and cause model to shift.
Bottom layer 20
Minimal layer time 10 (default i think)
Cooling fan should be ON MAX all the time for now. It will result the most stable result.